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Some advice please – how good is the later electronic ignition system ?
I have two options to explore – an add on electronic package to control the timing curve, rev limiter etc. – or a replacement system.
I need to have the option to retard the ignition at maybe two points ( max turbo boost and nitrous oxide activation. The ability to fine tune the advance curve would also be beneficial.
This is what £18 gets you from Chinabay ! 8)
SUPERB quality – complete with it’s own foam case.
Definitely erring towards the Gixer pump now. Hoping there’s room inside, if not – it’s an external setup.
A few more bits from Chinabay and I can start laying the parts out for a proper look see.
Slight terminal inexactitude on the price of the cooler – I forgot I upgraded to swivel fittings £29.00 delivered.
I think I’ve located a suitable remote oil pressure relief valve [ turbo supply ]. The Gixer pump puts out 55 psi before the bye-pass opens – I only need 35 ‘ish for the turbo supply otherwise seals will suffer.
The Aussie one is £169 + carriage [ £20 ]
Take a look at the very similar layout of the Mercedes 420 version – £28 !!!!
A supplier in Birmingham [ UK ! ] has them in stock. Only 15 miles away so I plan to call in and have a good look at one.
The Flat Tracker “Tangerine Dream” is finally morphing into “Glemseck” – the Sixties style Cafe Racer – Turbo’d !
I already have some old style Tarozzi clip ons [ correct size ! ]and a choice of seat bases, although I’ll probably go with the AJS 7R style.
I’m just waiting for some measurements to come through before committing / ordering the following.
The fairing top will give me somewhere to hang the various gauges [ boost, oil pressure for Turbo and engine ]and eventually nitrous oxide paraphenalia. Maybe even the NOS bottle.
The Manx “tank” is in fact a cover only. That means I can use a stock steel KZ tank without having to worry about ethanol etc., but still have the styling I want.
I will be on the lookout for the smallest tank that will fit [ one of the custom jobbies ? ]and of course the cosmetic condition is irrelevant – in fact the more battered – the cheaper – I can use that. As long as it’s sound and petrol proof it will do.
Big shout out again for Kennys for the loan of sump and various bits so I can continue the mock up.
SO THE INTERNAL PUMP LOCATION IS A NON STARTER !!!!
OK, plan B …. The external location driven from the end of the alternator screw is definitely a goer.
Even sorted out the drive – thanx to Kenny and the loan of more bits ! So I looked at the end of the Gixer pump and thought – “use the end with the spindle / cog”
Yep that works a treat. Gives me a housing with bearing / seal – simple bolt on, and has the advantage of using the Gixer drive chain. It simplifies my ” can you make that for me please mister” list as well. “All” I need is the OEM Gixer drive spindle shortening and a slot machined in the alternator screw for the drive. Not quite as simple as that – but nearly so. Just as well I have THREE Gixer pumps.
Major session in the shed today. Once the pump location was sorted, a lot of the other packaging fell into place. By moving [ oh futtox ] the carefully laid out and constructed under seat electrics and tray [ !! ] I can move the turbo up and back sufficiently to get a gravity return to the sump of the turbo oil – that also means I don’t need a scavenge pump – or remote sump. Might bring a new meaning to the phrase “roasted nuts” …………… need a good source of heat protection !
Pulled the pin on the Norvil half fairing and tinted screen, and I’m 99% certain about the Manx tank cover.
Latest Chinese Take-Away ………
£14.00 delivered ! The 4 alloy fittings alone from UK source £16. And here’s the actual fairing [ without aperture ] £60 + screen.
So – update on progress, with some explanatory [ I hope ] pix.
Just to clarify my thinking on the Gixer externally driven pump – Bit of imagination required !
First – the general layout – the Gixer end housing will bolt to / through the small circular alternator cover, giving me access to the alternator fixing screw which will require a slot to take the spade end of the Gixer spindle [ shortened to suit ]. That gives me both a bearing and seal for the drive. That in turn will allow me to use the stock Gixer drive sprocket and chain.
Finally the pump itself will have weld bung AN fittings welded in place.
While I was out there freezing – I decided to have a rough POC on the exhaust system using some random bends and a 2>1 collector I’d bought.
Again – imagination required – as it will be on the other side [ probably ]. As it’s a real mission to turn the bike round now, I decided to go ahead on the side I had access to ! I can see with very little mods – it’s definitely a goer. Unfortunately not with my welding ::) Nothing has been cut or modified yet – and already it almost falls into place. Someone’s smiling down on me. This side would probably “look good”, but there’s too much going on in that area with the pump, hoses, turbo etc. Although it would give me a better line into the turbo housing. At some point in the near future I have to get the rolling chassis off the bench and onto my bike lift !!
Today was a general checking out of my theories [!].
I also finalised the POC fitting of the exhaust.
By no means finished as I have not yet cut / modified any of the random bends I bought. I want the “welder” to check everything out first.
So, imagine the front pipe bends much tighter to the head and the 2 in to 1 collector will be parallel with the two pipes – just to clean up the aesthetics.
I have a good run into the turbo from this setup, but of course that cannot be finalised until the oil pump / hosing is in place. I still have the option of repeating this on the other side.
Now I don’t have to use the oil sump I bought [ !! ], I now have some extra space for the battery [ under swingarm ].
I will have to remove my electrics undertray and re-site all the components [ drat ], but that’s just an annoyance rather than a problem.
A friend asked me why I post so much AND change my mind often !
I prefer to think of it as “evolution” and the reason for posting – I get valuable feedback from some of you experts – which is much appreciated.
Latest “whatif” …… The exhaust will definitely be better suited on this side. Michael,I understand your comments about “display” and leaning to the left. I think I am reaching the point where a paddock stand might be needed!
However, that puts the exhaust / turbo in very close proximity and might cause heat transfer problems.
There is room ( and shorter chain run ) if I mount the pump in front of the lower frame rails – level’ish with the sump. It will require protection of course, but I have a solution for that which is”different”, and will look good.
So, apologies to anyone who thinks I post too much ………..
Hi TJ,
this time it wasn’t me 😉
I fully understand why it is required to change the concept as often as needed.
There is something in mind and a POC shows that it might or might not work.
I would try to get any external device driven from the ignition side of the engine. There is a “dry area” with a sealing ring in the clutch cover.
All Z-Kawas I know and that are modified to use a blower/compressor do that from richt hand side.
Ok, an oil pump doesn’t need that massive belt to be driven.Another thing is the size of the bolt in the alternator / rotor.
In the B1 and B2 engines this bolt is smaller than in all later models.
This smaller screw causes issues already just when the rotor and the starter’s freewheel clutch needs to be fastened.
… and this is a LH (left hand) screw.You may want to use a B3 or later engine to solve that “screw size” issue.
Using one of the latest Twin engines (1983 and 1984) would give you more space for a large front sprocket and clutch actuation is completely attached to right hand side (no push rod from rear left hand cover).
Just throwing in my 2 cents, but it is worth it to think about using the best foundation that is available.
Cheers, Michael
Ha,ha Michael !!!!!! NO – it was a pal of mine who is not a forum member.
Yes, The ign side was my first choice because of the “dry” area.
However, the drive spindle is very small and we have an issue with the direction of rotation. If I use the spare Gixer pump outer housing there is a seal and a bearing. I will do a sketch next week to explain. It does look very practical.
Thanx for the headsup on the different screw sizes. There is not much inertia to overcome from the pump.
Please keep your input coming Michael – always appreciated.
Hi TJ,
the screw size is an issue in itself.
The mounting torque of the smaller one (MF10 x X) is 75 Nm, while the larger one MF12 x X) gets 120 Nm.
If the smaller one was overtorqued you can even see with bare eyes that it is lengthened.
To fix this screw correctly, directly impacts the function of the starters freewheel clutch.
It must be done very seriously with the smaller screw, while the larger one has more reserve in it.
Cheers, Michael
Thanx for the very useful graphic Michael.
I imagine the crankshaft must also be changed to use the larger screw !
One alternative we used on some V8 Ford engines where a particular screw was marginal – was to swap for a stud.
In my case I have to make provision for a spade drive [ from the Gixer pump ]so a slot will be required anyway. A stud from suitable material might be the answer ?
I have another engine coming from KK at some time, so I will check that one out.
A pal is loaning me an engine crane next week [ supercharged Volvo project ] so I can use that to raise the KZ engine onto the bench and “get inside” – for the very first time !
I actually started dismantling my engine yesterday – I managed to get it onto a temporary “clean” bench”.
Temporary as I want to clear my main bench [ a mess ! ]before total dismantling takes place.
Curiosity as much as anything else – just removed case covers to see what’s actually inside !
The engine looks like it has been freshly assembled – which is in line with the info from the PO.
However, it now shows me that the outer casing [ alternator ] is one piece – and NOT with a removable central cover !! Cunning Japanese put the three screws there to fool me !
That actually makes the conversion simpler as the three screws are equidistant to the crank end. So the drilling of a drive spindle rod hole is simple to get “right”. I now understand Michael’s warning of a “dome” !
My engine has the smaller screw and of course a different set up for the alternator.
The good news is that my new engine is a later model with the larger screw and electronic ignition.
I have several possibilities to locate the pump now, and I can also drive it from either side.
So, I won’t waste any more time on that at the moment, but wait until the bike is on the bike ramp and I can gain access all round. Then it will become obvious [ ?? ] which is the most practical location.
That also frees up decisions re: the exhaust – which side etc.
I have quite a lot to package into the bike – turbo, Nitrous, exhaust, pump etc.,etc + all the relevant switches, gauges and controllers – so I think the plan now is to get it on the stand and start looking at where everything is going to live.
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